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Electric car future: lighter vehicles, more range

WHLT 22 -- SEATTLE (AP) If you believe Bob Lutz, one of the auto industry's best-known executives, come midcentury we'll all be driving around in lightweight electric cars that can go hundreds of miles between charges.

Electric-car technology is improving rapidly, he said, while internal-combustion engines are as good as they're ever going to get.

Lutz, developer of the Chevy Volt, was in town for a conference at Seattle Center on Friday called "Beyond Oil" an event that showcases green and high-tech transportation advances. Sponsored by local think-tank Cascadia Center, the city of Seattle, VIA Motors and others, the conference drew transportation execs, state officials and electric-car enthusiasts.

They showed off or peered inside an assortment of energy-efficient vehicles on display every

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Submitted Sep 09, 2012 By: aservant

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honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:18,610 Points:1,608,545 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Sep 11, 2012 2:16:22 PM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse it's possible to get 100 mpg from and ICE, but not when driving down the road at 80 mph...
crep1291 Champion Author Ottawa Posts:2,578 Points:480,900 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Sep 10, 2012 3:25:15 PM Ignore crep1291 Report Abuse "It is well known that internal combustion engines have been invented allowing around 100 mpg." Engines are not designed for 100mpg, nor any other fuel efficiency. Fuel efficiency depends on many factors external to the engine. The exact same engine placed in two different vehicles will give you very different fuel efficiency. When lutz refers to engine efficiency, he's talking about the ratio of energy being converted into movement. That's typically 20% for an internal combustion engine and it's difficult to improve this. Turbochargers and superchargers can, but they raise the cost of the vehicle and make the vehicle heavier. So will any system that generates electricity from the exhaust heat.
URKiddinMee Champion Author South Carolina Posts:1,214 Points:242,910 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Sep 10, 2012 2:38:56 PM Ignore URKiddinMee Report Abuse I'm waiting to see Obozo keep his promise to drive one of these firebombs when he's out of office. I hope he's afforded the opportunity next January!
Radar1992 Champion Author Florida Posts:1,320 Points:309,190 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Sep 10, 2012 8:23:38 AM Ignore Radar1992 Report Abuse This article as usual misses the point on the electric/hybrid vehicles...it is not the weight of the car....it is the capacity and weight of the batteries!!!! The reason why we do not have many technological improvements have always been the lack of materials, whether it is structural or battery material. Until the material/manufacturing engineers/scientists develop the elusive "Unobtainium" and we see improvements in battery technology then the designers only hope is to reduce the overall weight of the cars which could compromise safety and repairability after an accident... You do not do a whole lot of carbon fiber repair...you replace it if it gets damaged.
Grizdad Champion Author San Bernardino Posts:5,525 Points:783,050 Joined:Oct 2010	Message Posted: Sep 10, 2012 12:30:18 AM Ignore Grizdad Report Abuse Expected from a Seattle news outlet.
alterman156 Champion Author New York Posts:7,485 Points:1,556,775 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Sep 10, 2012 12:26:51 AM Ignore alterman156 Report Abuse Electric vehicles might become the norm someday.
bginsj Champion Author San Jose Posts:1,868 Points:1,234,635 Joined:May 2009	Message Posted: Sep 10, 2012 12:06:48 AM Ignore bginsj Report Abuse we will wait and see
pgerassi Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:10,896 Points:2,131,605 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 11:45:02 PM Ignore pgerassi Report Abuse BEVs are more expensive because their batteries are balanced at the top or end of their charges. Thus they have to be individually monitored and bypassed when they reach full charge before the others are. Thus they are first charged by a fast and cheap bulk charger for all hundred or so of cell groups each connected in parallel in series to get the high voltages typically used (240-360V nominal) and then due to these groups each having a slightly different capacity have to be individually charged until all are charged or discharged while the others keep charging until all are charged. The latter is quite a bit cheaper than the former, but requires the bulk charger to slow down greatly and produces a lot of heat leading to fires when components fail. And either method is quite complex and has to be done on virtually every charge. But there is a different way which many DIYers do. They give up a little capacity on a complete charge by balancing at the bottom or beginning of the charge and just bulk charge until one cell group reaches full charge or simply to a set overall voltage below that of full charge. Sure they give up 1-10% of a full charge, but since rarely is a battery fully discharged, they only have to do a bulk charge. Thus they only need the onboard charger to be a cheap and fast bulk one leaving the slow expensive bottom balance charge to be done in the repair shop once every year or so. If the DIYer wants, they can add a cheap battery monitor that checks cell group voltages individually which puts the loss of usable capacity at the lower end of that range (1-2%) and can tell when the bottom balance is needed whenever the battery reaches the fully discharged state. But, most either simply live with the slightly less capacity or for cheaper than many battery monitors, add some additional capacity to make up the loss. This is a far cheaper and keeps with the KISS philosophy while being far more reliable. [Edited by: pgerassi at 9/10/2012 12:50:56 AM EST]
Bezalel Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:12,098 Points:2,290,020 Joined:Oct 2006	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 11:19:24 PM Ignore Bezalel Report Abuse It is well known that internal combustion engines have been invented allowing around 100 mpg. I heard one was sold to Ford. There have been several. They were all buried, possibly by Big Oil.
kgbellman Champion Author Ann Arbor Posts:2,713 Points:731,840 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 11:16:59 PM Ignore kgbellman Report Abuse Let's hope they follow through
jrschl Champion Author Louisville Posts:2,962 Points:680,090 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 11:13:58 PM Ignore jrschl Report Abuse If they say so. I mean it is going to improve, or else it will be shelved like anything else swallowed up by tech and competition.
farn1958 All-Star Author Twin Cities Posts:886 Points:183,385 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 11:04:55 PM Ignore farn1958 Report Abuse and more old news
rahcat Champion Author Grand Rapids Posts:2,468 Points:662,200 Joined:Jan 2010	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 11:04:50 PM Ignore rahcat Report Abuse Must have a big trunk for the 100 mile cord.
sprocketsplines Champion Author Washington Posts:1,682 Points:860,640 Joined:Oct 2010	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 11:04:41 PM Ignore sprocketsplines Report Abuse Need to have a pragmatic comparison of the electric car versus the natural gas car. North American drivers have become too accustomed to the gasoline powered car's range between fill-ups and the natural gas car is the one that can most likely match it.
Dragnet Champion Author Arizona Posts:15,406 Points:2,908,760 Joined:Jul 2004	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 11:02:44 PM Ignore Dragnet Report Abuse This continues to be nothing but a major joke.
Toppers Champion Author Atlanta Posts:9,007 Points:2,469,720 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 11:02:40 PM Ignore Toppers Report Abuse Lookin' forward to future designs
richnc All-Star Author North Carolina Posts:575 Points:209,480 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 11:00:14 PM Ignore richnc Report Abuse put steel plate on the roads (no more potholes) and a mesh overhead and get the off season carnival bumper cars and away we go.
gaspumpin Champion Author Indiana Posts:1,665 Points:388,380 Joined:Apr 2012	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:59:14 PM Ignore gaspumpin Report Abuse Yeah, but you can fill your car with gas a lot quicker than you can recharge your batteries.
mrbee Champion Author Little Rock Posts:3,753 Points:2,465,610 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:58:46 PM Ignore mrbee Report Abuse Won't hold my breath.
defiancegasman Champion Author Ohio Posts:7,080 Points:1,323,260 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:54:00 PM Ignore defiancegasman Report Abuse The real advances need to come in batteries, reserve capibilty and quick charge ability. With the VOLT back up generator, the batteries are not as necessary as in a pure electric car.
rozellep2 Sophomore Author Illinois Posts:105 Points:574,075 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:52:40 PM Ignore rozellep2 Report Abuse Ok
Aviator_Rob Champion Author New York Posts:3,795 Points:413,015 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:52:00 PM Ignore Aviator_Rob Report Abuse Just for the record, @jrsva, charging an EV from a coal fired powerplant puts out less pollution per car than a current-generation hybrid vehicle. Now, consider that coal is the dirtiest form of electricity generation and it's STILL cleaner than using a regular internal combustion engine. EVs will be a huge game-changer and sooner than almost everyone thinks. 20 years ago, people were using cellphones the size of bricks that cost them $2/min to call. We've come a long way since then.
DarthDadJr Champion Author Virginia Posts:7,307 Points:1,520,445 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:51:44 PM Ignore DarthDadJr Report Abuse I don't know if I will live that long...
kosciak Champion Author Hartford Posts:1,106 Points:534,275 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:49:56 PM Ignore kosciak Report Abuse Ok
gumbyrex Champion Author Fresno Posts:3,296 Points:758,315 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:49:47 PM Ignore gumbyrex Report Abuse Just the natural evolution of the electric vehicle. I believe we ain't seen nothing yet.
Aviator_Rob Champion Author New York Posts:3,795 Points:413,015 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:48:25 PM Ignore Aviator_Rob Report Abuse Actually, @sickhp, we don't need to build additional powerplants to charge all of these new EVs since much of the power grid lays dormant overnight. That's because most offices and factories power down for the night. We could replace 40% of the cars on the road with EVs before we would need to build one new powerplant. Plus, the utilities would prefer people to use more electricity during off-peak hours since it allows their generators to run at a more constant setting, instead of having to mostly idle after dark.
Rednix Champion Author Miami Posts:6,153 Points:1,274,760 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:47:37 PM Ignore Rednix Report Abuse Something to think about.
Revup77 Sophomore Author Nebraska Posts:174 Points:25,005 Joined:Jul 2012	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:47:01 PM Ignore Revup77 Report Abuse We need more of this.
HA4CNN Champion Author Toronto Posts:5,624 Points:1,543,390 Joined:Dec 2006	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:45:02 PM Ignore HA4CNN Report Abuse They're bound to get better with each passing year.
Aviator_Rob Champion Author New York Posts:3,795 Points:413,015 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:44:14 PM Ignore Aviator_Rob Report Abuse Careful, @starfighter08, basic physics isn't so basic. More specifically, I mean the field of thermodynamics where a large heat source is inherently more efficient than a group of smaller heat sources. An internal combustion engine is inherently a method of converting a fuel into heat which expands a gas that drives a piston. 80% of the energy needed to propel a vehicle that uses an internal combustion engine is lost as heat. On the other hand, electric vehicles are far more efficient since an electric motor pretty much has only one moving part. Plus, a very large powerplant can much more efficiently retain the heat needed to produce the steam that drives a generator turbine. Also, the pollution from a large powerplant is far easier to control than millions of tailpipes. It's not basic physics. It's thermodynamics.
carinthuist Champion Author San Francisco Posts:2,243 Points:329,260 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:43:31 PM Ignore carinthuist Report Abuse yes more range electric cars
libertyut Champion Author Utah Posts:1,350 Points:291,625 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:43:09 PM Ignore libertyut Report Abuse Bigger cars and better gas prices.
sickhp Champion Author San Antonio Posts:1,374 Points:516,155 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:42:33 PM Ignore sickhp Report Abuse We need more power plants to make EVs a real option and Obama with the EPA are in the way.
fenster66 Champion Author Pittsburgh Posts:3,345 Points:673,115 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:41:57 PM Ignore fenster66 Report Abuse hope to see major improvements over the next decade....
jrsva Champion Author Virginia Posts:9,852 Points:1,612,250 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:41:03 PM Ignore jrsva Report Abuse EVs are not yet ready for prime time. More development is needed, including better batteries and a battery-exchange program instead of slow recharging stations. Battery exchange could be done in the time it takes to pump gas. And they make no sense unless the electricity comes from solar or other renewable source. What’s the point of burning coal to drive your car?
joeschmo12 Champion Author New York Posts:1,011 Points:305,265 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:38:25 PM Ignore joeschmo12 Report Abuse I want to b hovering on the highway
abcdMA Champion Author Worcester Posts:7,922 Points:1,574,980 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:38:13 PM Ignore abcdMA Report Abuse lighter, as in plastic
suicyco16 All-Star Author Phoenix Posts:576 Points:286,875 Joined:Jun 2012	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:36:51 PM Ignore suicyco16 Report Abuse light or lite?
blazerbob91 Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:6,140 Points:1,882,695 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:35:29 PM Ignore blazerbob91 Report Abuse If they make them to light they will blow off the road in a stong breeze.
randallhsmith Rookie Author Houston Posts:14 Points:163,680 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:35:17 PM Ignore randallhsmith Report Abuse not a chance...the hidden pollution will eventually get the attention of the public. That will be the end of the electric car fad. The hidden pollution
Aviator_Rob Champion Author New York Posts:3,795 Points:413,015 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:34:07 PM Ignore Aviator_Rob Report Abuse A Hummer's in just as much trouble if a truck hits it at 60 mph, @gsayeg1. Small cars are not the death traps that you might think they are. The differences are in better design and more airbags. Plus, smaller cars are more maneuverable and do a better job of avoiding accidents, to begin with.
egd Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:8,088 Points:2,118,300 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:32:47 PM Ignore egd Report Abuse good luck
Aviator_Rob Champion Author New York Posts:3,795 Points:413,015 Joined:Mar 2012	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:30:58 PM Ignore Aviator_Rob Report Abuse A prime candidate for a plug-in hybrid vehicles are UPS and FedEx. Their delivery trucks only run during the day and sit at their distribution centers all night. They mostly drive at slow speed in traffic and make frequent stops. That driving routine is practically tailor-made for an electric vehicle.
5Golfer8 Champion Author Tucson Posts:2,138 Points:300,650 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:29:43 PM Ignore 5Golfer8 Report Abuse No jobs no new vehicles.
gsayeg1 All-Star Author Milwaukee Posts:785 Points:140,340 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:29:01 PM Ignore gsayeg1 Report Abuse cars are a driving disaster if they get hit by a truck going 60
andy1024 Champion Author Allentown Posts:1,697 Points:447,175 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:28:20 PM Ignore andy1024 Report Abuse The future is nearer.
Cableman66 Champion Author North Carolina Posts:2,110 Points:489,945 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:21:23 PM Ignore Cableman66 Report Abuse Good lck.
clermont40miles Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:10,569 Points:1,771,920 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:21:13 PM Ignore clermont40miles Report Abuse Expensive roller skates.
oldiesman Champion Author New York Posts:6,427 Points:2,193,960 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:20:57 PM Ignore oldiesman Report Abuse Never for me.
drobbbb Champion Author Maryland Posts:3,475 Points:811,485 Joined:Dec 2010	Message Posted: Sep 9, 2012 10:18:33 PM Ignore drobbbb Report Abuse let's hope so